Hey Smoke,
Thank you for this post. I wanted to post the URL to the possible website you got this article from...
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/141199/jeb_bush_proves_irony_is_not_dead/?utm_source=feedblitz&utm_medium=FeedBlitzRss&utm_campaign=alternet_blogs_peekI also dug a little deeper and found an article at
Esquire which I suspect is the original article.
Source:
http://www.esquire.com/features/jeb-bush-interview-0809Jeb Bush: The Future of the Republican PartyWith no obvious candidate to lead the Republican party (and one having just stepped down), some are looking to Jeb Bush. Which is news to him.By: Tucker CarlsonJeb Bush interview, Biltmore Hotel, Coral Gables, Florida.
The scene: Lunchtime at Jeb Bush's modest office just outside Miami. Just Tucker and Jeb, no one else in sight. Sandwiches. Jeb, only fifty-six, the smarter Bush boy, a good governor, with a great many people expecting that he's not yet finished, but after passing on the chance to run for Mel Martinez's Senate seat earlier this year, there's not an obvious path back to power for him. And his party is a shambles. Obama strides the globe like a colossus, Specter is days away from jumping, and Congressman Eric Cantor's sad rebranding effort is about to launch to no fanfare at a pizza parlor somewhere in Virginia. What will become of the once (and recently) great Republican party? And what role will one of its brightest stars — one of its only stars — play in its future?
[Bush shows off his Kindle.] I'm waiting for the next iteration. I'd love to be able to e-mail off my Kindle. If it had more interactivity, it'd be an even better device. I subscribed to Huffington just to see how the forces of evil are conspiring.
[Bush puts the Kindle aside. The conversation quickly turns to his feelings about the current state of the GOP.] I'm relatively optimistic. But the demographics are going against us. Alex [Castellanos, Republican media consultant] told me today, for example, that there is not a district in California where Republicans are out-registering Democrats. Of the fifty-three districts — I think that's right — not a single one has an improving situation. It's striking. So you have a shift. There's more minorities. The voter-registration efforts have been successful by Democrats, ACORN and the like. The swing voters are Hispanic voters in most of the swing states. And Republicans have done a poor job, sending signals that Hispanics aren't wanted in our party. Which is bizarre.
How have Republicans alienated Hispanics?
The people that are on television are the loudest on the immigration issue. The emotion, the anger, is a signal. Put aside the substance, but just in terms of the language. It makes it sound like them and us. And the evidence is that after [the GOP] making major inroads, Hispanics have turned toward the Democratic party in the last two election cycles. Big time. Compare that to how my brother did and how I did and how other Republican candidates have done in the past and you can see a trend line that's quite disturbing.
Can you oppose illegal immigration and not seem anti-Hispanic?
It's possible but it requires a tone that's different. If you listen to the conversation, it's not just words; it's how they're spoken. It has to be dispassionate, the language. But it hasn't been.
You mean Limbaugh?
I don't know how much he talks about immigration. Rush Limbaugh is a hugely important force for the conservative movement. I'm more interested in elected officials, how they behave.
What do you think of Rush?
I feel happy for Rush to get all this attention. He's one part of a mosaic of people and thought in the conservative movement. I don't think you can discount his importance. At the same time, he's not an elected official, so I think he has a different responsibility.
Conservatives can win, can draw people toward our cause with the proper language and the proper ideas. I don't think that conservatism has been rejected in the United States. I don't believe it.
One third of young voters say they prefer socialism.
I don't think all is lost. The country is a center-right country. The problem has been that conservatives in positions of responsibility, particularly in the Congress, lost their way. And in general conservatism has gotten a little nostalgic and less focused on the here and now, and on the future. I'm a huge Ronald Reagan fan. The Republican primary was almost all about Ronald Reagan: Who was the heir to Ronald Reagan? Well, I mean, Ronald Reagan would be talking about ideas, would be talking about broad principles, would be talking about issues, more than what we heard in the primaries. The world is radically different than it was in the 1980s, dramatically different.
The radical changes that have taken place because of technology alone create high anxiety for a whole lot of people, a lot of angst, but it also creates huge opportunities for improving the human condition. And conservatives need to be in the game. We need to be talking about what the world looks like today and what it will look like going forward, rather than speaking in nostalgic terms about the past. Put the principles of our philosophy in the context of 2009 and beyond. That would be helpful.
Why has the party gotten so unpopular?
I don't think there's any seismic shift. The Democrats have won on tactics. Barack Obama would not have gotten elected if he'd let us in on his secret plan prior to the election. He would not have gotten elected if he'd said, "My idea is to create a $1.8 trillion deficit for the next fiscal year. My idea is to spend $750 billion [the president's budget estimate puts this figure at $630 billion] over the next ten years on a government-sponsored, government-subsidized health-care policy. My idea is to create a massive cap-and-trade system [based on the idea] that CO2 is [a] pollutant and we need to tax it in a massive way to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions." Those ideas, which are now embedded in his budget, and the ideas in the stimulus package, weren't central in his campaign. In fact, he basically won the tax debate, which is breathtaking if you think about it. Cutting taxes is generally considered a center-right idea, not a center-left or left idea. He made it appear like McCain was going to raise taxes, which was unfair, but there was no response back. When there was an ideological component, it was generally centrist or even center-right. Had he said what he was going to do as a candidate, [Obama] would have lost.
Why is he so popular now?
[A flash of agitation.] First of all, who cares? His popularity is no greater — in fact it's less — than what my brother's was during the beginning of his tenure, in a time of unbelievable friction, if you think about it, because of the 2000 election. His approval ratings were higher than Barack Obama's during his first one hundred days. [Actually, according to Gallup, during the first hundred days of his presidency, Bush had approval ratings that were generally in the high 50s to low 60s, while Obama's were in the low to mid-60s.]
My guess is that there will be a push back. I think in general there was a period of time when the only new ideas were Republican ideas. It wasn't that long ago. And now one could make the case that the opposite is the case.
We certainly have lost the last two elections in terms of the tactics. In terms of the mechanics of politics, the tactics of politics, the Democrats have cleaned our clock. But beyond that, there hasn't been any kind of restatement of the organizing principles of our philosophy. And there haven't been a whole lot of ideas to come to the forefront based on that philosophy.
We haven't upgraded our message. We haven't updated it. If you close your eyes and listen to most Republicans, most conservatives, the same speech could have been given in 1990. And you can't discount that. It's a pretty important point. If people think our message is outdated, our message is not relevant to the world we live in, and I think a growing number of people may feel that, you lose your relevance.
I'm not saying abandon our principles. To the contrary: Find creative ways of expressing the principles.
This should be a renaissance time. Whether it's education or health care or energy or the environment, or whether it's the scale and scope and size of the governments all around us. This should be our time. But it isn't, is it?
Do you believe global warming is primarily man-made?
I'm a skeptic. I'm not a scientist. I think the science has been politicized. I would be very wary of hollowing out our industrial base even further... It may be only partially man-made. It may not be warming by the way. The last six years we've actually had mean temperatures that are cooler. I think we need to be very cautious before we dramatically alter who we are as a nation because of it.
Does the party need to change or de-emphasize its positions on abortion or gay marriage?
No. No, I think those are important issues to not shy away from. And I don't think that's the reason why suburban voters have migrated to the Democrats. I think it's the economic issues. We have not been able to explain why these timeless conservative principles matter in 2009.
I think the economic issues drove the 2008 elections, and to a certain extent the 2006 election. The last big election was the presidential race in 2008. Senator McCain, in spite of his life experiences, his worldview, the kind of man he is — I think he was far more qualified to be president than President Obama — he could not connect to people's anxieties and fears about the economy. He could not take our timeless principles, he could not take conservative values and express them in a way that drew people toward the belief that while we're living in these tumultuous times, the solution is not bigger and stronger government, that we shouldn't migrate toward the collectivist response and feel comforted on one level because government is there to take care of us, that there are dangers to that, number one, and, number two, the alternative is to use these basic institutions that are the hallmark of our philosophy we need to strengthen. We need to strengthen the family, we need to empower people, give them the tools to be successful. We need to reform the things that right now make it harder for families to be successful.
We're never going to win by being for more government. I think people, if they were less fearful of all the change around them, they were given some hope that there's a lush, green valley on the other side of that hill, and they were told that we needed to climb that hill together, but based on principles that have created the greatness of our country, then we would not necessarily default to ever-expanding government.
Should McCain have opposed the bailout?
I don't know. That's a great question. It seemed he was just uncomfortable with the whole thing. Canceling the debate, then going back to the debate, calling for the White House to have a meeting with people whose ideas were already pretty entrenched, then not using the skills he clearly has...
I think [Obama] handled it very well. McCain didn't handle it poorly. He just looked uncomfortable. I don't think people felt necessarily that he had an answer. To answer your question, maybe if [McCain] had opposed the bailout based on some actual principles he could express, and that led to some solutions, that would have shown leadership and people might have turned to him in the election.
On September 15 — I was with him that day — McCain was winning. He was ahead in the polls. I was in Jacksonville and Orlando. That morning he said that the economy was fundamentally strong. I interpreted that as he meant it. What he meant was, "We're Americans, dammit." It was more of a patriotic statement. And immediately, we get on the bus and he's talking on the phone to someone at headquarters, central command, and he's saying, "I was taken out of context." And I think he was. He seemed uncertain about the issues.
[Jeb defends the early bailouts, the ones implemented by his brother.] If there wasn't any support, given the intricate nature of all these credit-default swaps, you could have had an unraveling of the financial system. So I'm not sure there was another choice. There may have been a different means of doing it.
[Bush laughs when he hears that Joe the Plumber briefed House Republicans on Gaza. He doesn't seem to really believe it. Brother and son of recent Republican presidents, he doesn't seem to fully understand what's going on in the party his family has dominated for more than two decades. "Joe the Plumber? Really?" he says. "Well, that... Really?" In response, he mounts a defense of erudition and expertise.]
I think it's okay to have a deeper understanding of things. I think it's okay to talk in three-syllable words. The world we're living in is incredibly complex. And simplifying things to the point where you're misunderstanding where we are as a nation isn't going to help people overcome their fears or give them hope that they can achieve great things. I don't get inspired by shameless populism.
Who are the leaders of the Republican party?
I think you need to put it in the proper context. Barack Obama was a state senator five years ago. So the next generation of leaders are going to be people we probably don't even know. I don't think we need to worry about that quite yet. If there's going to be a resurgence of the Republican party or the conservative movement, I think it's going to require some patience and some humility — less personal ambition and more advocacy of ideas and how they relate to people.
[That said, Bush reels off a list anyway.] Newt is fantastic. He's an idea generator. [Jeb says he e-mails him.] The guy has a twenty-first-century mind. [He mentions "the conservative mayor of St. Petersburg, Rick Baker." Also, Mitch Daniels, governor of Indiana.] I love Bobby Jindal. He's the real deal. [Not on list: Sarah Palin, Mitt Romney, Mike Huckabee.]
Continued: Bush on Obama as a socialist, himself as president, his pitch for the GOP's future, and more! >>>
[Interesting fact 1: Jeb has never met Obama.]
Is Obama a socialist?
I don't know. Define socialism for me. It's a word... I believe he's a collectivist. He believes that through collective action, through government, you can solve more problems.
But...
Socialism is pejorative in America, so people stop listening. People are tired of it. That word won't stick. It's a turnoff. It doesn't help.
[Rejecting pejoratives to describe Obama, Jeb nonetheless mounts his central case against the president.] It's important for people who have a different view to explain the breathtaking, dramatic expansion of government. I mean, breathtaking. Unprecedented. This year's fiscal deficit will be $1.8 trillion. It's his deficit. He owns it. $1.8 trillion. That's 12 percent of our gross national product. The scope of government will — when you add federal, state, and local government on a net basis — consume at least a third of our economic activity. The deficits projected go out as far as the eye can see. President Obama says he will cut the deficit in half. Well, he'll cut it from $1.8 trillion to $900 billion — almost a trillion based on rosy GNP numbers for the next five years. The debt that will be created in his four years as president will exceed the debt that was created by all presidents before him. These are numbers that once people understand the scale of them, they'll be very concerned about.
What's the alternative? The alternative is to take time-tested practices and convert them to the world we live in. Which means you're going to cut taxes and cut spending.
Don't people like spending more than they dislike deficits?
That's the conventional wisdom. I believe that big-government conservatism is an oxymoron.
Isn't that what we just had for the last eight years?
It was, to the extent that my brother was unable to get the Congress to go along with meaningful entitlement reform, although he tried, which by the way the Republicans were not supportive of. It was because we fought a war, and we had to build a homeland-defense structure that didn't exist. But I think my brother gets a bad rap about the general idea that there were massive amounts of spending beyond those two things.
What about the prescription-drug benefit?
Well, that's true. That would be one place where the government did expand pretty dramatically. And there was no reform attached to it per se.
The interest on the debt, and Medicare alone, will weaken our country to the point where we're not going to have the same influence that we need to have, or should have, or want to have in the world.
[Interesting fact 2: Jeb likes Secretary of Education Arne Duncan a lot. "When there's common ground, embrace it."]
Were you tempted to get into the presidential race last year?
No. I don't organize my life around political ambition. I do try to allocate enough time to help people with policy. When you're talking about running for something, it requires an all-in commitment, and I don't have the luxury of doing that right now. I've got to achieve some degree of financial security for my family. I had a chance to be governor. That was close to a ten-year experience when you count the two years it took to run. So after 2006, it was really time to refocus toward making sure that I can achieve some degree of security for my family. You're too young to know this, but the measure of achieving that is different for different people, but the best barometer is — the benchmark is, the goal is — not if you die. If you're the breadwinner of the family, it's not if you die, it's if you're disabled. And so it's a higher bar, but it's the more appropriate one.
So why not run?
[Jeb gets agitated.] Frankly I don't wake up each day assuming I'm the solution to life's problems. I think there will be emerging people who have a combination of great ideas, a great ability to communicate those ideas in a relevant way to people, and the ambition necessary to run. You need all three. I am content to be part of the larger effort that creates the fertile ground for those candidates to run. To me, it's flattering when people seek my views.
What about those who say your last name prevented you from being president?
It doesn't bother me. I feel blessed. I have a blessed life. I don't feel like life has been unfair at all. I got to be governor of a fantastic state. I got to do what I said I was going to do.
[Interesting fact 3: Jeb likes GOP chairman Michael Steele. "It's way too early to give him grades."]
[Lightning round.]
Okay, give me your forty-five-second pitch for a Republican future.
[Bush outlines four points, speaking for more than fourteen minutes. It's worth noting here that after two years out of the governor's mansion, Bush seems a little out of practice at this interview business.]
We need to empower people to be taking advantage, to turn their fears into opportunities in a variety of different areas. It seems to me four areas of greatest concern right now, outside of foreign policy, which is a whole other subject. [On education.] Are we educating our kids properly? Are enough of our children gaining the power of knowledge in the current system? The answer is unequivocally no. So we should have more school choice, we should have more pay for performance, we should be raising standards, not lowering standards, we should embrace technology in a radical way, we should have "seat time" eliminated.
[Timidly.] Seat time?
You show up for 180 days, you graduate. It should be based on what you learned... People learn differently. It's a simple fact that our education system ignores.
We're living in a world now where in order to create high-wage jobs, you have to have knowledge-based workers. There is no way to do that unless they have the basic building blocks of being able to think abstractly, understand math and science, be able to read, maybe once in a while express a thought in a three-syllable word, preferably do so in more than one language, and have a sense of history, because it has this crazy way of repeating itself. I don't think our education system in America is acceptable right now.
[On health care.] Have you ever gone to HHS [the Department of Health and Human Services]? Have you gone to CMS, the Centers for Medicare/Medicaid? It's scary. That's going to be the marketplace for health care if Democrats have their way. Senator McCain had a fantastic health-care proposal that he had a hard time explaining, that said that basically you should empower people, individuals, to make choices, and they should be rewarded when they make choices that improve health-care outcomes.
Under Obama, we're going to create a system that's not focused on quality; it's focused on access to care.
You end up insuring fewer people the more government expands its insurance. People drop out of the private market. For every person the government takes on the rolls, there's an equal number of people leaving the private sector. We're like gerbils running in place. We're not expanding health-care access per se.
There are all sorts of technologies now that exist that allow us to improve health-care outcomes if we organize our system differently.
[The budget is the third point.] If you put a performance review on almost any government program, there's always a better way of doing things.
[Energy is the fourth point.] We don't have control over our energy sources, and it puts us in a vulnerable position.
[Conservatives need to be involved in the discussion about alternative fuels, Bush says.] We're the only country in the world that would consider it appropriate policy not to take advantage of our own natural resources to provide stable, low-cost sources of energy.
[A pause. A moment of reflection.]
In this interim period, we have to pay for our sins and show some humility.
What are those sins?
We didn't advocate our positions well enough to win.
We're all sinners under God's watchful eye. There's a road to redemption. But the road to redemption requires some humility and some patience. To campaign on these ideas is a good way to do it. It's not about a person's ambition. It's about the power of these ideas. And they need to be developed thoughtfully, with the input of a whole lot of people and the advice of a whole lot of people. It doesn't have to be in Washington. It can grow organically... I'm going to be involved as best I can.
[Interesting fact 4: Jeb talks to Congressman Eric Cantor a lot. Interesting fact 5: He no longer subscribes to the Huffington Post. "I stopped. I got tired of it."]
What do you read every day?
I read The New York Times. I read The Wall Street Journal. I read the Sayfie Review, which is about Florida politics. I'm reading a wild book. It's The Singularity Is Near. [The Singularity Is Near: When Humans Transcend Biology, by Ray Kurzweil] The book is about how technology is going to overtake the human mind. There's basically like an L-shaped advancement that's going to take place. There's a convergence of our own intellectual capacities and technology. There's going to be a merger, and we're going to, this guy believes, live in an era of unbelievable intelligence and advancement. It's wild.
Do you buy that?
I'm reading to learn.
At that, Bush's secretary (the only employee in his office on that day) hands him a sheet of directions for his next meeting, which is downtown. We walk out to his car, and he looks a bit uncertain as to where he's heading. "You're driving yourself?" I ask, incredulous.
Bush looks at me and snorts. "What's the alternative?"
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Food for thought!! Or the possible lack of appetite. Reading this tripe makes me regret my last meal.
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Just Me
Sass
