World Discussions > Politics

Illegal Aliens

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misfitguy:
(This was first written on Apr 15, 2005 on our Proboards site.)

I message on the Big Foot Forum, www.bigfootforums.com It is a pretty good place to share information about the outdoors and efforts to see/study bigfoot.  There are a lot of very intelligent individuals that message on the board with a wide and varied expertise.  

The owner of the board, for whatever reasons refuses to allow religion or politics to be mentioned.  This creates difficulty when trying to message on a topic, say, about the Everglades and how it is being misused or whether bigfoot has the same intelligence as us.  

Recently, there was a thread concerning the "The Minuteman".  The best I can figure it is a vigilante group, from the southwest, that are patrolling our borders.  The starter of the thread heralded them.  Four pages later, the thread hadn't been locked by the owner of the forum, even though it was filled with ethnic and racial slurs and a "Let's kill them all..." attitude.  

Well I jumped in and wrote this:


--- Quote ---  First understand, I appreciate the bff. I have met a few individuals on this forum and have had some useful information shared with me that have made it a worthwhile forum.

This thread, though, is offensive. I have bowed to the moderator's wishes concerning politics and religion not being mentioned. I had messaged in a thread a few weeks ago that was locked up because I mentioned the Bush family and right wing politics. I was led to believe that simply mentioning these things, along with GOP, Rumsfeld, and other republican terms and individuals would shut a thread down or at the least, cause a warning shot to be fired.

I have some definite opinions concerning our borders and illegal aliens. I can't really espouse them because they come from my religious background and political observations. So, that seems to mean, if a member supports a group or organization that simply shoots illegal aliens, that is ok to announce. "Kill them, it will be easier to get an accurate count" attitude seems to be an ok message topic.

I will be curious how the above terms will be printed out when I post this.
--- End quote ---

Finally after four pages, somebody else said, hey, I'm thinking this is kind of a ethnic/racially motivated thread as well.

In fact here is the hyperlink for the thread

http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=10641&st=0

Well, is there any comments concerning immigration, illegal aliens, etc?

Mick

misfitguy:
Reply from Mick:

? Reply #1 on Apr 21, 2005, 7:59am ?   

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Well, let me add an addendum to the above report.

The thread turned into a 12 page thread with all sorts of denials. I tried to help them in their understanding of bigotry, but, hey, I guess bigots are not open minded.  Let me just say this, there was a guy that said he was a whapp (his spelling) and a ginnie (his spelling) and it didn't bother him one bit to be called that. He also ranted about making spaghetti (not his spelling) and I didn't get it.

The general thinking seemed to be that to be accused of using a racial or ethnic slur, one must use a particular word that is used for that particular race or ethnicity. Things like, "I have heard that Mexican women get pregnant before they come over the border so there baby will be born American" is not an ethnic slur to them and they can't conceive why somebody would call it that.

Ot another guy, while trying to prove that he wasn't prejudiced, said, "We have Mexicans all over Georgia and they are hard working suckers." He couldn't see why that would be offensive to anyone. I suggested that it was similar to the phrase "I'm not prejudiced. Some of my best friends are ________, "(you fill in the blank with whatever ethnic/race you are at that point trying to convince someone that you are not prejudiced about.) This sort of statement was used in the 60's concerning Blacks, particularly in the north.

Well, anyway, the thread also spent quite a bit of time denying that it was politically motivated. But I want you to stop and think about it.

We have a border that is over 1200 miles long. Somebody (?) gets a bunch of volunteers from many states to sit in lawn chairs, with pistols, and a six-pack watching the border. They claim they don't turn anyone back or detain anyone, but that is not true, as news reports state differently.

But the point is it affects only 20 miles of the border. That's it. Does anybody think that we could get enough volunteers to cover the whole border? Then what/who could possibly motivate somebody to organize this effort. I had to say for a minute I don't know. That is until I went to the MinuteMen web site (yes, they have a very impressive web site) and found that some of the minutemen were being invited to Washington to speak with some of the Republican congressmen. And also, they asked people to quit volunteering as they had enough volunteers at the present.

So the Rebublicans want to meet the leaders of a vigalante group, huh? I am going to suggest that this group was formed by and supported by the right wing GOP, to continue to create an aura of fear so that their continuing rush for "more" power will not falter. This is just one of many ways to keep people afraid, so they will allow legislation that will take some of our constitutioonal rights from us. Such as the changes in the search and seizure laws that have come about since 9/11 and the right to detain and question without petition, the right to wire tap, and all the other little changes that simply add up to George Bush's (oops I mean George Orwell's) 1984

Mick 
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Reply from scorchinblues:

? Reply #2 on May 1, 2005, 3:15am ?   

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I understand why you are upset about this now. You've been listening to the evening news. In the first place, the report that an illegal was held was admitted as a false report. There is a video online that shows the illegal was given water and a stupid tshirt and he hugged the Minutemen and waited until the border patrol arrived and waved goodbye, smiling. They were providing water for any illegals who approached them, but they were instructed not to approach any illegals themselves. As far as guns and six packs, they were banned also. All they did was observe that twenty mile strip and report to the border patrol any sitings of illegal aliens in their area. The ACLU was outraged that they couldn't find that they did anything they could charge them with. They sent observers out to observe the observers. It all sounds pretty silly to me. The whole point is that we have unsecure borders and the problem of illegal immigration is growing more serious daily. Not just from Mexico, but they are using Mexico as the conduit to get to the U.S. The Mexican government has very strict immigration controls, but if you are just passing through on your way to the U.S. they look the other way. If you try to stay in Mexico, that is another story. They will not allow you to do that. You will be either deported or imprisoned, depending on which country you come from. Central and South American countries get the prison, but European and any country with a strong economy will just be deported back to that country. Yet Vicente' Fox complains when we try to curb the flow of HIS citizens across our borders. If he wants an open border it should go both ways. The conservatives are not prejudice on this matter, as a matter of fact, there are many liberals in the southwest that are in favor of a tighter border too. The federal gov't has told California they have to educate the children of the illegal immigrants but has not given the state any funds to do so. They won't because they are illegal but they tell CA to do it. It really sounds like a "catch 22". From the west side of the country it looks like the federal gov't has an agenda and isn't letting anyone know what it is until it is too late to stop it. 

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Reply from Mick:

? Reply #3 on May 2, 2005, 8:00am ?
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--- Quote from: scorchinblues --- The conservatives are not prejudice on this matter, as a matter of fact, there are many liberals in the southwest that are in favor of a tighter border too. The federal gov't has told California they have to educate the children of the illegal immigrants but has not given the state any funds to do so. They won't because they are illegal but they tell CA to do it. It really sounds like a "catch 22". From the west side of the country it looks like the federal gov't has an agenda and isn't letting anyone know what it is until it is too late to stop it.
--- End quote ---

The conservatives that you mentioned are not prejudiced are the "Federal Government".  The right wing conservative controls the Presidency, the House and the Senate, though moderate Republicans are now starting to show some voice.  You can't have it both ways...the conservatives are ok but the Federal Gov't aren't.  One in the same.

I don't deny there are issues concerning illegal immigrants and our borders, and they need to be addressed.  I am incensed about this issue on two counts.

1.  I see it as a tool by the ruling party to simply create a lot of fear, which they then can claim to overcome, with legislation like the Patriot Act.  For instance, terrorists crossing our border with Mexico keeps being mentioned by this group.  Fear...Fear...Fear.  And yet there is no history of any terrorist or group of terrorists using Mexico to enter the U.S.  On the other hand, there is a history with the Canadian border and this border is not mentioned.  Why?  Because the Canadian border has not been an issue and the Mexican border has been.  So if they combine 'illegal alien' with 'terrorist', they now have even more fear created.  A fearful electorate can be controlled.  It is the one formula that all despots have used to gain power.  This is the right wing conservative group which is now the Federal Government.  Wouldn't it be great if these guys could simply serve, basing their performance on their platform and and their achievements would be the result of the good they could do for this country.  It never will happen and that is why they resort to this sort of politics.  In Spain, they were called Fascists, the ruling business class.

2.  I am appalled that the American public buys into this platform.  I guess when history was being taught, the majority of the populace didn't go or slept.  History is simply repeating itself.  George Orwell wrote the Animal Farm.  We are writing the sequel to it today.  Our borders have been open since the United States was formed.  All of a sudden, in the administration of GW Bush, the populace takes up the call to "Close the Borders".  Why?  The reasons I hear are Mexican women are cleverly timing the birth of their children so that they will have their child in the US and that is why California is having all their problems.  There are also a couple of other reactionary reasons.  Anyone can list them.  Terrorists...taking jobs from good Americans...etc.

So concerning the issues, let's resolve them or let's talk about them.  The issue isn't something like a border.  Hell there has been a flood of immigration into this great nation since it was first formed.  Some of California's greatness comes from its Oriental population, which, for the most part, would be considered to have come from illegal entry.  Same for the east coast and the Irish and Italians. 

Let's talk about issues like extreme wealth and extreme poverty and the problems it causes.  Let's talk about economies that are butting heads, instead of uniting, like the Europeans have done recently.  Let's be honest and talk about ethnic and racial distrust.  Let's quit listening to these dramatic right wing conservative radio talk show hosts that "should" hurt you head and will bend your heart.  Let's become excited by hope and the change that is in the air and not driven by fear and greed.

Well, anyway, that is my wish.  I find this issue will not go away for me.  It is coming up in conversation everyday.  When some stranger with white skin decides to complain to me because the orientals are taking over the restaurant trade.  Lately, the issue of the Mexican border comes up in daily conversation, simply because the right wingers have kept it in the front of the news so as to create their aura of 'fear'.  I have spent 20 years talking about the Mexican border as one of the cruelest borders in the world.  We required 8 million Mexicans to come and work for us every year, but we didn't give them the dignity of carrying the right visas.  We required them to sneak in.  Now, all of a sudden, everybody is concerned with Mexicans coming here. 

Oh, well.  If I lived in the SW, I would surely be more aware of how this flood of humanity is affecting the infra-structure.  I can imagine, but I agree it is not the same.  But we must learn to focus on the real issues and it isn't the border.   

Mick
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